Cannonball Forums

[kay]

Last summer I went on a nearly 6,000 mile ride around the US, from Boston, down the coast to Rt. 50, over to Colorado, up to South Dakota, through the Black Hills National Park, the Badlands, and then back over to Boston. Beforehand I did a lot of research on headsets GPSs, iPhone mapping and such and here's a basic summary of what I found. I'm sure others will have more to add.

(this is a cross post from http://masukomi.posterous.com/motorcycle-accessories-info-iphone-gps-device )


This post covers:

* iPhone apps
* iPhone as a GPS
* Dedicated GPS devices
* Bluetooth Helmet Headsets
* Helmet Cameras
* And some related notes.

iPhone Apps:
A quick listing of apps I'd recommend that are useful for motocyclists. I'm sure there are many more:

* AutoStitch (free) will stitch together a panorama from multiple photos.
* Daylight (free) Displays sunrise and sunset times for your location. Intended for photographers but great for knowing how much riding time you have before dark.
* Gorillacam (free) Tons of great camera tools, including letting you take pictures as quickly as you can tap the screen.
* iAtlas ($1.99 listed under travel. Note that there appear to be two iAtlas apps.) If you take your photos with iAtlas it will create a Google map for your trip with indicators for all the locations you took photos at. Also has Flickr integration.


iPhone as a GPS:
The maps application is utterly unreliable as a GPS substitute. The main problem is that AT&T has crap data coverage in the US. I found that in the vast majority of the time the iPhone had no 3G access, frequently didn't have edge either, and whenever I was riding somewhere interesting had no phone coverage either. As a result it was simply unable to download the map. It knew my longitude and latitude, but that doesn't do you a lot of good without a map.

So, I downloaded the TomTom app. It should be noted that it's a 1.3GB download and can't be acquired over the 3G network without a jailbroken phone. Plus, you'd pretty much have to be sitting still to guarantee you didn't loose data coverage. It also appears you need about 3 Gigs of free space when an upgrade comes along (they can't update just the app they have to update the whole thing as a single unit) even though the app is less than half of that. I don't know why. Anyway. The TomTom worked fairly well. The GPS isn't the most precise, sometimes the map shows you driving off the side of the road, and it might get confused as to what road you're on when there are multiple parallel roads or complicated intersections. But, it gets the job done and stores all the maps locally. HOWEVER it will suck the battery of a 3Gs dry in under an hour. So, if you want to actually use it for anything other than "Where the hell am I and where do i need to go next" you're S.O.L. unless you go to Powerlet and hook yourself up with an iPhone adapter that hooks into your battery. Remembering, of course, that most scooters don't have electrical systems that're designed to power much more than the scooter itself. I doubt that an iPhone would draw enough to tip the balance and start draining your battery, but it's a good idea to find out exactly how much spare power you have to work with before you start plugging things in. Especially if you get a Powerlet plug which can take adapters for much more than the iPhone.

I suspect that the competing GPS apps will serve you roughly as well as the TomTom app. As far as getting you from point A to point B I think the TomTom does a reasonable job.

BUT there is one huge warning when it comes to using your iPhone for a GPS and that's moisture. While the iPhone is pretty decent about working even after getting damp if a drip manages to find its way in to the water sensor then your warranty is void and they won't fix anything on your phone even if the problem has nothing to do with the water sensor. Months later I ended up having to buy a new iPhone at almost full price because of exactly that situation.

Another problem is that if you have it mounted where you can see it, you're not going to hear it, and honestly you're not going to be able to read the street names well unless you take your eyes off the road. My solution to this was to just stick it in an inner pocket and plug it into my Scala Rider Q2 headset or run the iPhone headphones up under my helmet. I was never able to get it to communicate over Bluetooth to my Scala headset. If anyone knows how please let me know. I found that audio only instructions worked perfectly well even though at the time it didn't read off street names and only said "in three hundred yards, turn right". I believe the current version does read off the street names. You could, theoretically run a cord from a mount on your handlebars to headphones (that's actually a pretty short distance) so that you could see and hear it, but that's not a great idea if you get into an accident because the cord may end up jerking your head around before snapping or releasing.

Also, you can't interact with an iPhone's screen while wearing gloves, and since you'd be crazy to ride without them it means pulling over, twiddling with it, and then starting up again.

Dedicated GPS Units
You have, essentially, three choices when it comes to purchasing a GPS unit.

1) You can use one designed for a car,
2) You can get a TomTom Rider 2 (oddly cheaper than the first version).
3) You can get a Garmin Zumo

If you want to use one designed for a car you'll have all the same problems as the iPhone (water, vibration, can't hear, can't touch the screen with gloves on). So, while cheap, it's not a great solution.

The Zumo and the Rider 2 both have displays that not only work with gloves on but are specifically designed for how fat your fingers will be and how imprecise your touches will be when wearing motorcycle gloves. Also, the information they display on the screen is typically just the essentials and laid out in a way that you can easily find out what you need to know with just a glance. If you afford one of these you should definitely get one. They're going to be notably safer to use and you can actually interact with them while riding. Also, they're both waterproof and designed to handle the constant vibrations they'll receive from being mounted to your handlebars.

As a side-note, while both will hook into your phone via Bluetooth and allow you to receive incoming calls by just poking the screen, neither will let you initiate an outbound call while riding. This is a good thing. Riding a scooter or motorcycle is dangerous enough without mucking about with menus trying to find your friends number and call them.

Of the three the Zumo is the best quality device, and has the best maps, but it has a couple downsides. First it's $640 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H2W4E6?ie=UTF8&tag=masukomiorg-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000H2W4E6
Second, you'll still want to buy a Bluetooth headset if you want to hear it and that's going to cost you at least $150. And, while it is arguably a better device than the TomTom Rider 2 I find it very hard to believe that the few additional improvements oven the TomTom Rider 2 are worth the additional $440.

The TomTom Rider 2 is $350 and comes with a Scala Rider headset. So, if you don't have a Bluetooth headset for your helmet this is going to save you $440 over getting the Garmin Zumo. The features aren't quite as good as on the Zumo, and it appears from the reviews that if you are unfortunate enough to get a bad unit you could end up with some really crap customer service. Then again, it might be exactly what you hoped for. The reviews make their customer service seem pretty hit or miss. Zumo reviewers on the other hand seem to be pretty happy with Garmin customer service. Another downside to the Rider 2 is that it comes with the Scala Rider headset not the Scala Rider Q2 (details on these below). I have the Scala Rider Q2 and I believe that the original Scala Rider will serve you perfectly well, but you might be left wanting the features of the Q2.

So, if you can afford it, get the Zumo: better maps, better features, better customer support. If you are on a tighter budget the TomTom Rider 2 will save you a lot of cash and should serve you pretty well. Just be sure to get it a few months in advance so that you can give it a thorough testing, and if it doesn't, get it through their hit-or-miss customer service before you really need it.

Mounting phones, GPSs, and cameras to your scooter or bike:
Go to http://www.ram-mount.com/ They've got what you need, the quality is good, and tons of people swear by them.

Powering it all:
As noted, check how much power your bike is putting out and how much it's consuming. Whatever's left over is all you've got to work with, and unless you're on a big touring bike, it's not likely to be very much. But, if you've got enough extra juice for your needs (or can manage to get a bigger stator in your bike) then Powerlet is the place to go. http://www.powerletproducts.com/ They've got some dedicated adapters, but my advice would be to spend a wee bit more and get the generic powerlet plug which can then have a wide variety of device adapters inserted into it. It'll save you a lot of hassle when you switch phones or GPSs or whatever next year.

You might be considering Solar power. There are lots of batteries that have little solar panels that are small enough to hang off of your backpack. Don't bother. It's a great idea, but the tech just isn't there yet. Go read the reviews on Amazon. They're invariably bad.

Bluetooth Helmet Headsets:
The first thing to know about motorcycle headsets is that they're not legal everywhere. In some states they're fine, in some states you can only have a headset with one ear, in some states you can own a headset but not use it, and in some you can't even posses one. AMA has the details for all the states here http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/laws.asp Note that most helmet headsets are essentially permanently mounted to your helmet. You can technically take them out but the process isn't going to be quick and easy enough to do when you cross state lines. If you decide to go with a headset you're basically saying you're willing to accept the consequences when you get pulled over in a state it's illegal in because you're not going to be able to get rid of it.

Many people are concerned that headsets offer additional distractions, and make it harder to hear the road. It's hard to say if they really make it any harder than the road noise and muffler already do but it's worth considering before making a purchase.

When it comes to Bluetooth helmet headsets there's one company who's products consistently get good reviews for quality and usability: Cardo Systems. They're the makers of the Scala Rider and Scala Rider Q2. Even better, their headsets are amongst the most affordable ones out there. The only downside is that they don't support stereo Bluetooth. If you think about it though, you really don't need it because you're going to be listening in the middle of at least 60 decibels of noise from the wind and your muffler. Plus, if you're smart and want your ears to not incur permanent hearing loss you'll be wearing earplugs too. So, it's unlikely you'd even be able to tell. There's also the problem that Bluetooth communications are going to eat your battery faster than anything else, so you want to keep them to a minimum.

I encourage you to be a good consumer, and go check out the competition, but consider stereo Bluetooth (A2DP) to be a bonus, not a requirement, and pay special attention to reviews that discuss how easy the headset is to manipulate when riding, how well it holds up in bad weather, and how difficult or easy it is to pair with your phone. Some of them have are insanely trisksy to pair with and many people report that finding the buttons on the competition's headsets can be really difficult while riding. Also, make sure that they behave sensibly when a call comes in and you're listening to music, or communicating with a fellow rider with the same headset.

The Scalas are very well designed, and I've taken mine through downpours as well as the middle of clouds where water seeped into every crevasse. I would not hesitate to recommend these. You must read the manual beforehand though, and memorize the few basic controls because you're going to be using this blind, from memory while riding. The battery life was excellent. I rode for three eight+ hour days with music piping in from my iPhone and it still had juice left. I can't comment on how quickly they drain with your GPS speaking directions over Bluetooth, or making phone calls over Bluetooth, but I suspect you'll get a day's worth of riding out of them.

Scala Rider Q2
Single set $160 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BBLOYI?ie=UTF8&tag=masukomiorg-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001BBLOYI
Pair $250 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G1DFLS?ie=UTF8&tag=masukomiorg-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001G1DFLS

The Scala Rider is essentially the same thing as the Q2 but it has no FM radio, no audio in (can't run a line from your iPod) and isn't stereo. The Q2 has all of these, but the stereo is limited to audio coming from the line in.

One thing to keep in mind when you're first trying out your headset is that getting the speakers directly beside your ears is absolutely critical to being able to hear anything. It took me a couple thousand miles of tweaking before i really got it right. Your ears are much closer to the bottom edge of your helmet than you probably expect.

My advice is to put on your helmet, then take the middle finger of your right hand and shove it up between your left ear and the helmet lining. Move your finger until the tip is touching the outside of your ear canal. Then, rotate your hand in place so that your fingertip is now touching the same spot but on the helmet lining. Press hard so that your finger doesn't move and pull your helmet off. This is easier said than done, but once you've got it off, your finger (if it hasn't moved) is exactly at the center of where you need to stick the speaker for your left ear. Once you've done than, switch hands and do it for your right ear.

Helmet Cameras:
Right now there are essentially four options on the market and the differences between them are huge. Some of you might be considering the video option on the iPhone 3Gs. This simply isn't an option. If you mount it to your handlebars the vibrations will give you absolutely unusable video (looks like you filmed from the inside of a front-loading washing machine mid-cycle) and the audio will be just wind noise, even if you hide the headphone mic up in your helmet. So, on to real options:

The cheapest option is the GoPro camera http://www.goprocamera.com/
They have a $190 version and a $300 1080p HD version. Quality doesn't look too bad, they're waterproof, and they've got adapters to mount it to pretty much anything but there are a few problems:

1. You look like a dork with one of these on your helmet. No, really. A massive dork.
2. No audio in. This means all you're going to record is obnoxious wind noise. Want to comment on what you're seeing? Not going to happen.
3. No way to tell if you've successfully turned it on or off, and no way to tell what it's seeing.
4. No way to see what you've recorded without downloading to a computer.
5. Battery powered.

Next up is the ContourHD from VholdR http://www.vholdr.com/
They have a 720p HD camera for $200 on Amazon and a 1080p version for $330. The quality appears, to me, to be better than the GoPro, it's got a nice sliding switch to turn it on and off so there'll never be a question as to if it's on or not, and it has 2 lasers you can use to make sure it's pointing the way you think it is, and allow you to make sure the lens is level with the ground. It also looks pretty good. Problems:

1. No USB out. It uses a MicroSD memory card (up to 16Gb).
2. No audio in. Like the GoPro it's just going to just record a bunch of obnoxious wind noise.
3. Limited mounting options. But, if you want it specifically for your helmet it's fine.
4. While the lasers will give you an idea of what it's pointed at you can't see what you've recorded without downloading it to a computer.
5. Battery powered.

Next is the P.O.V. Motorcycle Sports Helmet Video Camera System from V.O.I. http://www.vio-pov.com/products/pov_15m.php
The P.O.V. is $650 but, in my opinion, is a far better choice if you can afford it. This has tons of mounting options (including a chest harness), has a remote you can put anywhere to start and stop it, has various exposure controls, HAS AN AUDIO IN, can be powered by batteries, but also includes a kit to wire it into your bike's power. The camera is separate from the storage and controls, so you end up with a very small and lightweight tube with just the lens on your helmet, and a cable that goes down into your backpack, or coat, or wherever you've shoved the control unit. The control unit HAS A PREVIEW SCREEN so you can see exactly what it's looking at and playback what you've recorded. You can use a USB cable or remove the SDHC card to get your data off of it.

For me the audio-in is a must have, and the P.O.V. is the only one that offers it. The whole point of recording video is to share it with others, and part of that sharing is what you're thinking about, or what's going on when you're recording it. When it comes to motorcyclists we mostly have two things to record: landscape, and traffic. But without some audio commentary it's going to be hard for viewers to understand why you're filming that particular landscape or traffic. Even if you intend to overdub nice quality narration afterward having a recording of your thoughts at the time is going to be a big help. But, in addition to that the P.O.V. has so many other features that it's really not fair to compare it to the others.

Downsides:

1. 720p (no 1080p option)
2. maximum of 8Gb SDHC card (4GB included)


There's also a system from Hoyt Technologies http://www.hoyttech.com/ that comes in various configurations but I don't remember much about it and a quick perusal of their site makes me believe that the options above are probably better suited to motorcyclists.

My choice is, obviously, the P.O.V. if you can afford it. If you can't, I think the CountourHD is going to be a decent bet but I have no personal experience with it.

Helmet choice and long rides:
On your average ride of a few hours or less it doesn't really matter to much which helmet you buy as long as it's the appropriate shape for your head. The cheap $100 helmets are typically going to protect you just as well as the $500 helmets when things go wrong, but the $500 helmets have features that'll make riding eight or more hours a day much more enjoyable. WebBikeWorld has lots of good info about helmets, but what I would add for long distance riding is that weight and noise are a big deal, beyond that, which bells and whistles you think are worth shelling out the money for is a fairly personal choice. Maybe the convenience of a modular helmet is a big deal to you, maybe you don't want the added weight those typically come with.

In addition to choosing something light and quiet I would offer this advice:
1) Keep in mind is that sooner or later the visor is going to get scratched and need replacement. Some of the high-end companies charge $70+ for replacement visors, whereas companies like HJC and Scorpion typically have replacement visors available for $25. I need a new one every year, and at $25 you can afford to get a couple with different coatings.
2) fogging is a huge issue, especially when your ride takes you through a variety of climates. Pinlock systems are unquestionably the best when it comes to preventing fogging, but if the helmets your checking out don't offer that pay special attention to user's comments about fogging.
3) black may look cool, but really, wouldn't it be better to have the highest point of your body be highly visible? Get a light color, and consider adding some retroreflective tape in cool patterns.

The thing I discovered was that I really wanted one with the inner sun-visor. I've never read a review where the tester was thrilled with the inner visor. They've always got some legitimate complaint, but it's usually not a huge complaint, and there were simply too many times when I found myself racing the sunset to arrive at my destination without having to set up my tent in the dark. Every time I ended up lifting my tinted visor and riding with just my glasses underneath because switching to my clear visor would have required pulling over, getting off the bike, getting the clear visor from my saddlebags, taking off the helmet, swapping the visors, and shoving the tinted one back in the saddlebags before starting up again. It's a pain in the butt and simply not worth the effort. If you've ever had to race the sunset you know just how fast it can set on you. If you're going to ride at twilight you might want to consider one of these too.

[maroy]

+1
_________________
Mark

[starreem]

Damn Kay, thanks for the thoughtful write-up.
_________________
Starr

[kay]

[feb31st]

[kay]

[danham]

Excellent info. Consider these added or alternate ideas, not contradiction in any way.

I get great use out of a car GPS on my BMW F800 ST. All of the disadvantages kay points out are valid, but most are very easily overcome.

I use a Garmin nuvi 760 which even new costs a lot less than a Zumo and does almost everything the Zumo does. It works OK with gloves, has BT phone linkup, accommodates pre-planned routes (it got me through the 2008 CBR just fine in a support truck), and as for rain, well, it never happens on the CBR [g]. OK, when it does sprinkle, I throw a small freezer baggie or shower cap over it. If it really pours, I tuck the nuvi into my Olympia suit pocket where it stays dry and still keeps sat lock and gives voice directions.

I use Etymotic ER6i earbuds. They attenuate a lot of the road/wind noise but still allow (with use of a passive non-powered Belkin RockStar audio mixer) Valentine radar alerts, stereo GPS directions and MP3 (which I do not use while riding), and phone audio. Their hard wire plugs in down low, near the front of my saddle, so the wire does not flap in the wind.

Just my $.02 in case it helps anyone gear up.

-dan
_________________
I like blue: bikes, skies, highways, music.

[feb31st]

[danham]

Haven't verified this for the 500 series, but the 760 also claims 10 pre-programmed routes when in fact it holds dozens -- just no more than 10 active and ready to be selected at one time.

I stored a bunch in my 760 prior to the '08 CBR -- one for each of multiple segments each day times 10 days -- and never needed to bring my laptop.

Here's details on pre-planning if anyone is interested:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=119351

-dan
_________________
I like blue: bikes, skies, highways, music.

[Bobo]

GREAT new year's day post kay! How'd you do that with a good hangover?
_________________
Bobo
-----
Coast2CoastX2 2006
http://bobovespa.blogspot.com
www.myspace.com/bobovespa
www.k94life.org
----
2007 Vespa GTV
2006 Vespa GTS 250
2001 Vespa ET2 70
1961 Vespa VNB 125
1957 Lambretta LD 125 - yes it runs!

[4n6iscool]

I need some feed back from CB alumni

Which would be better to do?

Should I create a gpx route for each day (would that be good enough?) OR do I need/should I create a route for each individual segment for each day?

Any feedback would be great. Thanks

Matt
_________________
Matt

"Remember......Sometimes it takes a whole tank of gas to think straight." - Porn-Hair

[bagel]

I haven't done the GPS thing myself yet, but I would imagine that it would be best to have each day's route as a single file, with the control points marked as waypoints. If you were to have each segment saved as a different file, that means you'd need to stop riding, then load the next file before you start moving on to the next control point, which would waste precious time. With the whole day as one file, you'll have the option of snapping a picture as you cruise by the control point without the need to stop, if you don't have to.
_________________
Tom "Bagel" Donohue
Vespa Club Los Gatos
2007 Vespa GTS 250 i.e.

[feb31st]

[danham]

Here's my reasons for coming to a different conclusion than Dave & bagel did. They may convince you to adopt my method, or to go with their wisdom and experience [g]. Depends on what works for you. Note that I was driving a truck, not competing on a scoot, but this method works great for me on my motorcycle too.

I used one route for each segment each day. I did not have to load any routes during the day. The nuvi 760 holds many dozens of routes in memory, with 10 active at a time, so each night I loaded the next day's segments (usually 4-6) into the active area and they were set to go with very little button pushing at checkpoints.

This gave me a double safety factor because each checkpoint was the FINAL destination of each route, NOT a waypoint or via, meaning no matter how badly I got off course or how mangled the route got during a recalc, the GPS would recover on its own and head for, not skip, the next checkpoint, which it might indeed do if the whole day was included.

If you do have a route get really messed up by a recalc and you wish to "fix it" by reloading, I claim it's faster to reload one segment rather than a whole day's route. And if any little errors of Google translation to gpx, or route editing, crop up (it happens, believe me), I'd rather have one troublesome segment in a day than a whole day screwed up. Smaller routes also recalc faster.

For a real belt-n-suspenders approach, I also created Custom POI files of all the checkpoints and motels. That way even if there was a total route meltdown (there wasn't, but I'm cautious about such things), I could navigate directly to any checkpoint or motel without having to pick through a lengthy route file to find it.

As noted above, here's a more detailed review of the process:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=119351

-dan
_________________
I like blue: bikes, skies, highways, music.

[4n6iscool]

Thanks for the feeback guys. I also have another question. It is regarding the checkpoints throughout a day's ride. I am using a Garmin Zummo 550 with Mac Road Trip software. What is the easiest way of finding the check point so I can make it a stop along my route. I know some check points are signs and such. Which for the most part can be seen with google maps but how can I find the GPS coords to use for my Mac's Road Trip software.

If I am not clear on the run on question above please let me know.
_________________
Matt

"Remember......Sometimes it takes a whole tank of gas to think straight." - Porn-Hair